It’s hard out here for an agent…
07.22.10
Former Dolphins coach Nick Saban got on his high horse yesterday at the SEC’s media day to cry and moan about agents who provide illegal benefits to college players. The NFL has largely sidestepped the issue, pointing out the players’ association registers and oversees agents. NFLPA Executive Director De Smith is engaging in some empty saber-rattling about cracking down on offending agents. But really, how likely are players to tighten the reins on the very same guys that got them paid?
Some well-intentioned, but misguided, souls have suggested that the NFL adopt a policy to discipline players subsequently found to have accepted some dirty, dirty scrill from agents. But why oh why, you ask, would the NFL voluntarily adopt a problem that has plagued college sports since its infancy? PFT suggests that “the league has a strong incentive to avoid the alienation of the men like Saban who preside over pro football’s free farm system.”
I’ve got to call bullsh1t on that theory. If Saban wasn’t in Tuscaloosa, then some other jackass in a headset would be running the show. The players are the commodity– college coaches are essentially minor league scouts. There’s no need for the league to curry these egomaniacs’ favor by doing their jobs for them.
Another reason why this is a horrible, horrible idea: the league already has enough methods of keeping players under a microscope without introducing a whole new layer of scrutiny. Think about it Vince Young got called on the carpet for punching a loudmouth hater at a strip club. What kind of horseflop was that? That’s EXACTLY the kind of guy NFL players should be punching. Not pregnant girlfriends; not middle-age guys named Irving working at mid-sized financial planning firms. Giving the league another cudgel to wield against players will do nothing to contribute to the quality of the game.
Lastly, PFT suggests that such rules “could go a long way toward deterring some of the kids who have in the past pocketed money without fear of any consequence.” If getting stripped of a national title and probably a Heisman isn’t sufficient disincentive for players, how is an outside chance of a slap on the wrist in the future going to change anything? College football is FUBAR. The last thing the NFL needs to do is wade into that hot mess.
“These agents,” Saban asked yesterday, “how are they any different than a pimp?” While I don’t have time to fully address the question, I will say that for one, Nick, an agent won’t throw you through a plate-glass window if you try to sneak out without paying for your BBBJ. [ Obvious exception: Drew Rosenhaus. ]
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Everybody here is a bunch of followers. It’s ok to disagree every now and then and I definitely disagree. Those players shouldnt make a god damn penny. They are getting a free education and a shit at the pros. If they love the game they should pay their fuckin dues for three whopping years. The fact they don’t get paid is the reason I prefer college over pros. If they start paying college players you’re opening up a very ugly can of worms. It’s ok to step o ut of line sometimes you fucking tools
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This has been pretty well argued out, but I’ll just say my bit:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but a lot of kids work for the school doing clerical jobs and the like in order to pay their way and bring in some beer money, right? So why is it outrageous for the players to get a check from the school? Set a flat pay rate for all players if the worry is that it’ll turn into big teams buying all the talent.
I don’t have terribly strong feelings on this. I can hear the argument against paying them and keeping it amateur vs pro. But fuck the NCAA. They bring in huge amounts of money. If the money isn’t going to go to the players, then it ought to go to the schools’ funds for operations, capital spending, scholarships/loans, etc. The NCAA needs to be put on an allowance, if not outright demolished.
@Big Chris – thanks for the insight
I think the NCAA should go to a credit a year, basically if you play a revenue generating sport for a year you get a free year of tution to that school. So if you spend 4-4.5 years playing and don’t study and realize you don’t have a degree worth a shit, you can go back to school. If you take advantage of the education, then you can transfer that free tution to anyone your related to, brother, sisters, kids, nephew, ect. This would allow a type of payment, without losing amuetur status.
As i may be the only scholarship D1 football player who reads this site, a bunch of you are confused on the goings on of college football. First, very few D1 programs ‘make’ money, there are like 120 programs and prolly less than 20 make a profit. Football is very expensive to run. Second almost all Coaches in D1 football are not paid by the school but rather through alumni donations. NCAA time requirements are a joke. No football player puts in 20 hours a week. We used to spend at min an hour on the field before ‘practice’ doing walk throughs in street clothes so it wouldn’t count. Also conditioning after practice didn’t count either. Hour plus meetings everyday before the ‘walk through’ didn’t count nor the weight room after practice. Should i go on? Offseason was less true, but it was still a major time concern. As for you jokers saying work a job is as tough give me a break you have no idea. Image getting in a fight 4 days a week and then trying to study. Thats right almost all programs practice full contact 3 days a week except for ball carriers. Next, on full scholarship, all football players that are not walk-ons are on full, get year round (not school year) but year round we got preferred housing and meal plans, as well as preferred class schedules. in addition we recieved over 300 a month for additional expenses, things like toothpaste, soap, razors, ect… This was within the last decade, it has prolly gone up. Now it is true some programs are notorious and very upfront about encourging players to take certain class or majors, most are not. But you are expected to put football first. I did have one former Big East coach tell me to my face that finance is not something he likes to have his players major in since they have very few friends in that department. Lastly, most programs are very cutthroat when it comes to a guy who can’t hack it. Once you sign a letter of intent that scholarship is yours for 4 years. However, if the staff knows your not going to be a ‘player’ they are all to happy to ride you until you quit, and they get their scholarship back. That is college football.
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@bugg–also big time club soccer teams the world over have junior divisions…I’ve never thought about it for football. interesting point.
FavreFail-
The “free education is crap” meme is nonsense. And you will know this once you have kids and have to start saving in a 529 the day after their born to pay for a decent college education. If by skill you find yourself on a college campus at no cost to you because you can ball, if you fail to avail yourself to the chance to get that free education, you are a schmuck.
Know the NBA(despite thei crappy d-League) and the NFL don’t want to run minor leagues, but at a loss why not. Minor league baseball makes solid profits, as does junior and minor league hockey. There’s nothing any more special about teen football and basketball players that requires they have to learn their skills before turning pro with assholes like Calipari, Lane Kiffin and Saban while pretending to go to class.
Saban at least know a great deal about being a pimp. Suspect the skills required to be a successful NCAA big-time coach would translate well into having a fantastic pimp hand-paying your bills by keeping a bunch of scared people totally dependent on you to meet your every need and request with their bodies.
The NFL? Not so much. As Seattle is about to find out.
@ some guy
I would have to say that varies heavily from player to player. One who is likely to be drafted is going to be more likely to shirk his studies and study film and playbooks on his own or with teammates. Again, this goes to what I said about getting paid… their career is in the NFL, so these activities are how they study. Students who are actually trying to get an education will blow off as much of that as possible to keep their grades up. Let’s be honest… film study in college is nowhere near it is at the pro level, so I would expect players to be able to pick up the basics rather easily.
In essence, I’d separate film study and working out from meetings and practices. I’m assuming that most players want to work out and study film… at least enough so that they remain competitive. I’m sure the NCAA isn’t going to try and restrict that kind of voluntary preparation. Again, going back to my college days, I probably played basketball at least 10 or more hours per week. I’m sure the NCAA wouldn’t stop a ball player from playing pickup games in his free time (although the coach may have issue with it).
@ Shootme
I believe the rule for any “countable” activities precludes meetings, and anything that “counts” has to have a coach present and instructing. So I would imagine that precludes taping and therapy. And I’d bet good money that you’re right about workouts getting “overlooked”. They probably leave the weight room unlocked, leave them a “suggested” workout, and then look the other way. They probably skirt the rules with film study that way too. Leave the AV room unlocked with the game tape in the machine for any players who want to “voluntarily” study up.
As for the off season stuff, that only applies to actual practice. Again, workouts are “voluntary”, but we all know what that means.
@some guy:
“As for the 20 hours a week, that’s just practice time. Tack on workouts, therapy, film study, meetings, and probably most important travel time to and from games.”
I was thinking about that and that would equate to 4hr practices daily. That ain’t happenin’, so I googled them shits. Everything I found used the same verbiage, “countable athletically related activities.” Thus, it would include film study, meetings, practices and any MANDATORY weight room / conditioning activity. I’d say out of all of these things, the weight room and conditioning are two huge things that they could ‘overlook’ because they would be ‘suggested’, not mandatory.
That’s only for preseason and in-season, however. Offseason is much less work:
“In Divisions I-A and I-AA football, activities outside the playing season shall be conducted pursuant to Bylaw 17.11.6.”
that bylaw:
17.11.6 Out-of-Season Athletically Related Activities.
Student-athletes and members of the coaching staff shall not engage in athletically related activities outside the playing season per Bylaw 17.02.1.1.
They get around that with an exception in the spring:
17.11.6.1 Exception.
An institution is permitted to conduct conditioning and strength training sessions and limited skill instruction during a consecutive five-week period outside the playing season. During this five-week period, the institution may conduct athletically related activity on a maximum of 16 days with no more than four days of athletically related activity in any one week. Any athletically related activity (per Bylaw 17.02.1.1) shall constitute the use of a day. Skill instruction during this period shall be limited to passing, catching and kicking related drills. Such instruction may include offensive and defensive alignments, but may not involve contact. Except for footballs, the use of helmets, pads, blocking sleds or any other form of sport-related equipment is prohibited. No missed class time is permitted for these sessions.
Just sayin…
@shootme – Damn, nice work. In any case, it appears that I was too quick to take the numbers at face value when it seems that the math to get to these figures is fuzzy at best. I wasn’t endorsing the point in the article, rather that it was the first thing I could find on Google Scholar that provided some numbers on “scholarships = x hourly wages.”
/better to have math-heads than meth-heads around as I always say
Damn my drawn out response…
@Favre: Those numbers are just odd…
“Economist Richard G. Sheehan has calculated the hourly wage of big-time college players taking these considerations into account and assuming a workload of 1,000 hours per year.”
1000hrs? Assuming a 9month school year, that’s 25hrs per week. Assuming a 12 month school year, that’s 20hrs per week. Roughly the numbers they’re allowed to practice. However, yearly UTEP tuition is currently just under $4k. I’ll assume it was $3.5k when he did his study. When I went to college, room and board in the dorms was roughly the same cost as tuition. That’s covered, so the pay is now $7 / hr. That’s over minimum wage now and likely far higher than it was when the study was done (extrapolating from the tuition discrepancy). As well, scholarships also pay for all meals, books, fees, great medical insurance (for athletes, anyway), and some extra spending money. Bump that up to what… $9? $10 per hr? Sure, it’s not a LOT of money, but it’s a helluva lot better than working the fryer at your local burger joint. That’s how much I was making while going to college (and getting taxed on it) and it was how I paid my way through college. Except I was working on an assembly line rather than playing a sport.
That being said, it sounds like the number he was using in that analysis was strictly for room and board:
“The answer is a bit complicated since those who do not graduate have not taken advantage of their tuition, so they have played only for their room and board.”
First of all… you choose not to take advantage of that tuition… fucc you, it should still count. Even if they’re not spending time doing homework (their tutors do it for them), they’re getting paid to work out and prepare themselves for their career in the NFL. Bottom line… that entire article was trying to demonize coaches and programs that are pulling in all this cash… so they used a number that further accentuated their point, even if it wasn’t entirely truthful.
@jackin’ I was thinking more of a rusty sword to rape with, but heat is just as effective.
As for Keating, based on the other study I found it looks like he probably took the 2 extremes (cheapest possible college tuition and highest number of hours assumed) to come up with an “eye-popping” number. I should’ve cross-checked the math before citing it, my bad.
I hear you on the free education being somewhat crap as most of these cats come out of school with negligibly more knowledge than when they went in. That being said, I went to a school that produced its share of NFL, NBA, MLB and MLS (WORD!) talent and I would have to say that aside from the continual presence of tutors to ensure they didn’t fail, they took many of the same classes I did (2 years liberal arts, 2 years undergrad business).
I can’t speak for all programs, but the “student/athlete” can do with the education what he will and hopefully that will be enough to keep him out of the gutter when he retires. I also agree that cats should be able to work in the summer to make DAT CAISSSSH if they want without it fucking up their eligibility. Does the hourly job at piggly wiggly really interfere with whether or not they should be able to go pro? Me thinks not.
I’ll have to disagree with that Keating study as I know for a fact that athletes on campus are usually balling out even if most people turn a blind eye to it.
Agreed to sword rape of college presidents though. Let’s make sure the sword sits in a really hot furnace first.
@ je
But its not .7. Very, very few players would warrant a 70% ride for the baseball team. The rosters are typically 30+ players, with a limit of 35. Even at 25 the average player gets less than half a scholarship. Stretch that to 35 and you’re getting .33 each. The NCAA also added a rule this year that everyone on the roster must get at least .25 percent of a scholarship. This was done because a lot of coaches would give bigger scholarships to a few marquee guys and the rest would get nothing but their books paid for, which counted for like .1 or .05 of a scholarship.
@FarveFAIL Remember that a .7 scholarship is a 70% ride which is nothing to scoff at for a non revenue generating sport like baseball.
@shootme @ someguy
Did a little digging, I remember reading the Keating bit in an ESPN the Mag article a few years back and can’t find it. Found another economist who did a study and essentially said it varied depending on tuition. Dukies get over $20/hour due to their retardedly high tuition, while small state schools is like $3.50. This article is old as shit, but it cites the numbers in the middle.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/SLAVES+OF+BIG-TIME+COLLEGE+SPORTS.-a065230205
A 0.7 scholarship? Fuck that noise.
@ Shootme
It was Michigan that got in trouble. And you’re forgetting that a lot of these schools are public schools, so the tutition cost is lower. As for the 20 hours a week, that’s just practice time. Tack on workouts, therapy, film study, meetings, and probably most important travel time to and from games. And they do indeed go year round. Working out is “voluntary” (wink, wink). And the hourly limits don’t apply to preseason practice. Not to mention if you make a bowl game you get 20 or so extra practices out of it.
The QB was Craig Krenzel, and he did have a short stint in the NFL.
@ FarveFail
Baseball is different, because you get only 11.7 scholarships per team (yes, .7), and you have to spread them out over 20-25 guys. Almost all of those guys get partial scholarships, and anyone good enough to warrant a full scholarship offer will likely be playing for the Yankees rather than headed to campus.
@ LLUA
You’re probably right. Texas makes money because it wins lots of games and has a large alumni base which gets off on that. If we could somehow figure out how many games they would win, and how much money they would make, with the average replacement coach we could figure out Brown’s true value. I’m sure he adds some to their income, but he doesn’t generate that whole 80 million by himself.
I just googled the NCAA’s list of banned substances, and despite it ridiculous length (strychnine is on the list), hallucinogens are completely absent. I’d pay to see any NCAA sport if all the participants were on acid, peyote/mescaline, mushrooms, ayauhasca, iboga…
@Chesty – My experience was coming from friends who played college baseball and hockey. Football/basketball could be differerent, but I just assumed it was NCAA rules that they had to cover out-of-pocket costs.
@some guy – I think it’s the schools that drive the sport. There are a handful of programs (‘Bama, UT, USC, Florida, Michigan, etc) that make money every year regardless of how good or bad they play due to their structural advantages – large alumni bases. being a flagship state school, huge endowment funds, favorable TV deals – while most programs lose serious amounts of money. That is the “winning breeds money which breeds talent which breeds winning” cycle. Good coaches know how to maximize those advantages. It’s like a Fortune 500 company – they’ve got all the resources to succeed and can attract the best talent, but it still takes a savvy CEO to really maximize them.
You don’t know how much money Mack Brown adds to a university because you can’t quantify what his replacement, let’s call him Coach Fuck You, makes. It’s like saying that without Drew Brees, the Saints would have zero passing yards. As far as we know, Coach Fuck You, may add three times the revenue that Mack Brown does. I’m pretty sure Mack Brown is in Texas rather than Minnesota, because it’s a fucking goldmine of unpaid talent and they are fucking crazy for their college football down there. Mack Brown just happens to be the lucky coach who got the Texas gig. Mack Brown didn’t make Texas.
@ FavreFail:
“Peter Keating once did a study that calculated the average value of a college scholarship for a D1 football player divided by the average number of hours they’re in practice, meetings, weight room, etc and it was below $3.00/hour compensation”
That is a god damn lie… I don’t know where he got his numbers, but they’re beyond unbelievable. I can’t speak for time in the weight room, as that is the choice of the athlete, but teams can’t take more than 20hrs per week for practice, film study, etc. A big program (can’t remember which one) just got popped for this recently. NCAA hammers institutions for this. Given the cost of tuition, as well as the fact that teams don’t practice year round, there is no way in hell his $3 / hr number is right. Unless he did that study in 1972.
@ Chest Rockwell:
“I’ll say that maybe it’s not as easy for a college football player to major in biochemistry as it is for the average student given the demands their sport places on them.”
It’s not easy because they’re not that smart. Has nothing to do with the demands of the sport. As I stated above, they can only be ‘held’ for 20hrs per week. I worked 20hrs per week while getting a Physics degree (so I could pay tuition) and still had time for playing basketball, driving 2+hrs per day between home, work, and school, kicking it with friends, working on my car, etc. Some players, primarily those who know they’re not going to the NFL, do actually get legit degrees. There was a QB at Ohio State a few years back who got a degree akin to BioChem (can’t remember his name).
As well, you’re correct about getting things paid year round. It’s just like any other scholarship. They give a set amount of money to cover tuition, room/board, meals, and typically extra left over for ‘laundry’ or whatever else a student needs. Unless you do something to get your scholarship revoked, you’re covered for the year.
@ Chesty
Well actually, some student athletes are steered into certain degree tracks (or discouraged from others) in order to make sure they have enough free time for workouts, practice, film study, therapy, etc etc. And I’m sure a lot more look at the demands on their time required by their chosen sport (which is their meal ticket), and realize that its unrealistic or too much of a pain in the ass to attempt a more time consuming degree.
You are right about them getting meals and books and other stuff paid for, but there are also strict limits on what they can receive along those lines.
@ DB
My * original * point was that coaches not players drive college sports. A coach like Mack Brown generates hundreds of millions of dollars for the university over the course of his career. In 2008 Texas Football generated 87 MILLION dollars worth of income. Alabama 38 million.
Sort of. Some coaches make money for their universities, precisely because they are able to get the best athletes to come and play for them. Winning breeds money, talent breeds winning, and there’s only so much talent to go around. Ultimately its the players who do the work, but its the coach who puts them together. There’s probably a good business world analogy for that but its not coming to me.
@DancingBaptist: If you think that D1 football actually makes huge amounts of money, read this: http://aspatula.blogspot.com/2008/05/idiocy-of-funding-college-football.html
also, FavreFAIL, are you sure about this: “other costs associated with college – room/board, meals, laundry – have to be footed by the athletes, who usually come from poorer backgrounds.” You may be right about laundry, but I think the room/meals are for the entire academic year and are generally part of an athletic scholarship. I could be wrong, and I’d love to know the truth if so.
Where the fuck does John Calipari fit into this conversation AT ALL?
FavreFAIL–I do think that the players deserve something beyond the education for all that they bring to a school, but these “boondoggle” degrees you speak of–does the school force them to take on that course of study? Of course not, it’s their choice. I’ll say that maybe it’s not as easy for a college football player to major in biochemistry as it is for the average student given the demands their sport places on them. However, I don’t think the fact that many student athletes major in something relatively easy should be used as a knock on the perk that is a free education.
Need to draw a distinction between the coach, the institution and the region. BTW, for the person who said, the South East only has college football….I guess the Braves, Dolphins, Buccaneers, Falcons, Thrashers, Magic, Heat, Predators, Titans, Lightning and Florida Panthers don’t count ?
(insert insult)
Marty said “where was Alabama before Nick Saban” ? Please stop posting. You’ve obviously forgotten about the National Champs of 1973, 1978, 1979 and 1992. Or the SEC champs of 1981, 1989 and 1992. (granted there were some lean years post – Stallings)
(insert 2nd insult)
My * original * point was that coaches not players drive college sports. A coach like Mack Brown generates hundreds of millions of dollars for the university over the course of his career. In 2008 Texas Football generated 87 MILLION dollars worth of income. Alabama 38 million.
/off to practice tailgating
/bbq
/where’s the mailbag?
/SHE’S NOT THAT IN TO YOU
@Tracer Bullet
Wow, Florio really believes that? The guy he plagiarized that argument from must really be a retard.
@farvefail The NCAA maybe promotes it o a lesser extent but the schools themselves definitely go with the party line of “pure amateurism” if for no other reason than to keep the media off their ass. As someone who’s worked with athletic departments I’ve seen the contrast between the NCAA party line employees that try to uphold that image and the employees that realize its a farce and fight for players rights.
When I said it i didn’t mean that they (NCAA, universities) believed it. Just that it was what they wanted the general fanbase to think they believe.
Good point on the tax stuff.
@jackin /dickjoke!
@jackin’ – true, the players get “benefits,” but let’s be honest and just admit the free education part is crap. Many never graduate after using up eligibility, and many more get boondoggle degrees like “General Studies.” Most of all, the players put in an unbelievable amount of hours into their work year-round (Peter Keating once did a study that calculated the average value of a college scholarship for a D1 football player divided by the average number of hours they’re in practice, meetings, weight room, etc and it was below $3.00/hour compensation). That’s also time taken away from the athlete to work extracurriculars, jobs, or internships that could aid them in “going pro in something other than sports.” Some do it, but it’s that much tougher. Plus, the free meals are only when they’re competing. Other costs associated with college – room/board, meals, laundry – have to be footed by the athletes, who usually come from poorer backgrounds.
Agreed that tuition ought to be cheaper. The next college president who raises fees on their student body while building a multi-million dollar athletic facility should be raped with a sword.
DB has officially crossed over into MB territory. Dick jokes with your analysis or GTFO.
The NCAA is only concerned with sustaining itself at all costs. Even if that means pulling down a few programs each year, tarnishing the reps of former players and/or coaches so it can seem like they are only interested in the student athlete. When you increase graduation rates at the expense of $$$, then we’ll believe you, otherwise don’t insult our intelligence.
Agents who pay players and fuck up their eligibility should be banned, greased up, set on fire then shot.
Paying a player doesn’t make them play any better and shouldn’t have any bearing on whether or not a program should be stripped of championships, Heismans, etc. And I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about Reggie Bush’s situation.
Players get benefits called scholarships and free meals that the rest of us could only dream about. So let’s get off the high horse of paying them to entertain us. If anything, money that the schools pocket should go to making tuition costs for the rest of us cheaper so we can afford to attend college. If a players wants to make that real scrilla so he too can get arrested for selling Lean, then get drafted in the first round and STFU.
Drew Rosenhaus can suck a fat dick.
That is all.
I’m actually surprised that University of Phoenix online hasn’t tried to get into D1 football.
“of” instead of “am.” Fuck my typing
@je @ BBR – realize the NCAA isn’t trying to uphold the image am amateurism in some sort of noble effort of “student athletics.” Rather, the NCAA gets a sweet-ass tax exemption because it is technically a “non-profit” organization, in large part because its players aren’t paid. That’s why giving money to players, while it makes sense, would open a huge can of worms for the NCAA as they’d likely have to take a cut of their revenue and send it to the IRS. It’s the same reason why a few years ago the state of California tried to pass a law that would have allowed amateur athletes to be paid to endorse non-sports related enterprises (ie a USC football player getting paid a cut to endorse a car dealership), the NCAA went ballistic and threatened to cut off all CA schools from the mothership. The legislation quickly died.
@DB – your arguments are contradicting themselves. You say guys like Saban are needed, but then point out that in the regions like the South college football is “religion.” Thus, the fans would be supporting their teams no matter whose running the show (which was Flubby’s main contention). Shit, ‘Bama fans still bled Crimson when fucking Dennis Franchione was there. College football will always be a money-maker with scores of adoring fans willing to give anything to their players. The big difference in the equation is the NFL. Sure, you’ll be treated like a god at Texas A&M, but UT will give you all of that AND the chance to play on Sundays.
/sorry for the long post
The NCAA sucks at being fair to players, but is very good at making almost free money off of these guys and that is probably how I would run my business too. It’s the same reason as why we won’t get a college football playoff as opposed to this BCS bullshit. Bowl Games generate a ton of revenue for their respective areas. As Big Black said, it ain’t gonna change unless they are forced too.
I don’t think that “SEC” on the front of the podium is quite big enough.
@ Slash
Actually, here in Kansas, college basketball is the religion. We only play football so all of the ex-pat Nebraska fans can actually see a game and so Bill Snyder can see how many directional schools he can put on one season’s schedule.
Agreed with big black. It’s bullshit the players can’t getsome money. They fill stadiums, attract the media, and make the school that much more popular. Yet it’s a sin if they get a dime. It’s complete shenanigans
Dancing Baptist resorted to the “y’all don’t get it” argument. It’s the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and screaming so you can’t hear what someone else is saying.
I grew up in Texas, and lived in Tennessee. People in the southeast worship college football because it’s all they’ve got. Doesn’t make them bad, they just have no concept of a world outside of their own.
Big Black Dick has got it right. The NCAA is a horrible, draconian institution that cares about making money and upholding its image of legitimacy. These kids generate an obscene amount of money for their schools. The big time programs like Florida and Ohio State pay the entire athletic budget with their profits and all the kids get are some shoes, a shot at the pros and an “education”.
The revenue generating sport’s athletes deserve a piece of the pie. The agents aren’t the pimps, like Richard said, they’re just filling a void. The NCAA are the pimps.
DB – your argument is awful. That’s like saying voters will always vote a certain way, regardless of tax policy.
tax policy, ie – money, is the most effective tool of governments. athletes though, as we have seen, are immune to the influence of money, especially the younger ones.
Not all recruits go to a particular college because of the pros. Some are realistic enough to know this is their final stop
The ones who get you that sweet, sweet BCS coin (and a nice bonus to go with it) usually have NFL dreams, and more often than not NFL talent.
.Having said that, Alabama will always be able to recruit.
U of L, Monroe disagrees. Saban recruits, and is well paid for it, and I guarantee his number 1 selling point after you cut through all the bullshit about education and school spirit is this: “I will get you into the NFL. ”
Certainly an athlete on scholarship can get cash for spending money / food.
Well they do get a little, but they eat a lot more hamburger than Filet Mignon. Then they see a guy like Saban getting paid 7 figures while they sweat and bleed for chump change. Some agent starts throwing money your way…
I thought the NFL had Nick Saban. At least for a few months.
RE Nerd says:
“You have this all wrong. The NFL doesn’t need Saban. Saban needs the NFL. Every player that he gets into the league is another feather in his pimp cap which he can then flaunt to the next 17 year old phenom who has 4.4 speed and NFL dreams. That’s how guys like Saban, Meyer, Carroll, Tressle, etc work”
This.
RE Big Black Richard says:
“The problem isn’t the agents, the problem is the NCAA. College football makes a huge amount of money off of talented young men with marketable skills. Talented young men who aren’t getting paid for their marketable skills. Agents exploit that problem, but make no mistake, the problem originates with the NCAA, and the NCAA has the power to fix it. They won’t.”
And this.
RE the south and football: I’m guessing that college football in Kansas, Nebraska, Ohio or Pennsylvania is pretty fucking close to a religion, too. As sad as that is to say.
Dancing Baptist,
“Alabama will always be able to recruit.”
Where was Bama football before Nick Saban? They weren’t racking up weeks on the top 25 like Oklahoma, Ohio State, Penn State, USC, etc.
the idea that the NFL needs Nick Saban is pretty off base. the NFL needs college football, but not individual coaches. Saban’s ego isn’t that big.
Is Nick Saban gonna have to choke a bitch?
“These agents,” Saban asked yesterday, “how are they any different than a pimp?”
This would’ve gone over much better if he had compared agents to slave auctioneers.
Let’s separate college football and college basketball. I 100% agree that Calipari is scum. My running question for UK fans is what happens first – UK wins another NCAA championship or UK goes on probation?
Not all recruits go to a particular college because of the pros. Some are realistic enough to know this is their final stop. Having said that, Alabama will always be able to recruit. Saban just magnifies the gasoline on fire effect. He’s not paid millions because he can’t: recruit / win.
Anyone living north of the Mason-Dixon (who has never lived in the south) doesn’t get this. Cult / religion call it what you want, but college football is God down here. It’s generational. (Grand dad wen to old Miss, my dad went to Old Miss, I’m going to Old Miss, my children are going to Old Miss. Our house / apartment / room / trailer is decorated in Old Miss colors).
So yes, Saban / Urban / Mack are all still going to recruit. And recruit well. Hell Mack Brown recruited at unc. I do agree with Shootme that the colleges are helpless in this regard. (Hence the suggestion to keep ALL non-program affiliated folks away). BBR has another good idea. I got $250 (iirc it’s been awhile) a month as a ROTC cadet. Certainly an athlete on scholarship can get cash for spending money / food.
The NFL with no changes to their rules on HS kids needs colleges more than the other way around. Kids have nowhere to go BUT Alabama, Florida, Tulane, NC State et al. And yes, the NCAA * COULD * do something, but if you know anything about the NCAA, you know that ain’t happening until their hand is forced.
@ chest
Well I don’t know about the ignorance, but they do exploit the free labor of these guys and make millions a year doing it. And they can control them to a point, because they can deny them the ability to transfer or bench them.
At the risk of going way the hell out on a limb here:
The problem isn’t the agents, the problem is the NCAA. College football makes a huge amount of money off of talented young men with marketable skills. Talented young men who aren’t getting paid for their marketable skills. Agents exploit that problem, but make no mistake, the problem originates with the NCAA, and the NCAA has the power to fix it. They won’t.
you dun goof’d
“Well, for one thing, they don’t get rich off keeping a player ignorant and without choices. College coaches do that.”
How, exactly, do college coaches do this?
@Ryno:
“The NCAA needs to get off it’s high-horse and ask for some help with this. If they partnered with the league, they could hammer out a joint soloution that benefits everyone.”
That was really the whole point of everything that happened yesterday. The NCAA is pretty much helpless in the situation because it’s the NFLPA that certifies (and can de-certify, suspend, ban) the agents. The NCAA can’t do a damn thing to them, which is why they’re begging the NFL to help. Agents will keep doing this because there’s really no backlash for them.
Dancing Baptist also probably thinks that Alabama could beat the Raiders.
(They couldn’t. No, not ever.)
Furthermore, Saban can make life miserable for the NFL by closing his campus to any and all not associated with the Tide. No NFL team reps, no NFL film crews, no NFL talking with his kids until the COMBINE. THAT would put a serious crimp in the gubbins of many a pro team.
No, it wouldn’t. They still have the combine and all the game film, which comprises 95% of their evaluation process. Interviews take place after the combine and teams can still bring in 30 of the guys they are looking at for a visit and interview. A pro day only matters for guys like Andre Smith who fuck up the combine badly and then need a do over.
You have this all wrong. The NFL doesn’t need Saban. Saban needs the NFL. Every player that he gets into the league is another feather in his pimp cap which he can then flaunt to the next 17 year old phenom who has 4.4 speed and NFL dreams. That’s how guys like Saban, Meyer, Carroll, Tressle, etc work and are so successful. “Son, do you wanna be in the NFL? I’m the guy that can get you there.”
As for not a lot of chicanery, lets just wait until we figure out where all the bodies are buried. Every successful program has some dirt on it, and it takes time for it to come out. Though I do love Saban’s practice of flaunting the 25 new players a year rule. He’ll bring in 27, 30, 35, and then whichever ones get hurt or can’t hack it will find themselves without a scholarship or enrolled in a local JC. Its a great strategy for maximizing available talent while only trampling the spirit of the rule.
I’m pretty sure the shady underground world of NFL agents and 21-22 year old college players has nothing on the shady underground of John Calipari, 16 year-olds, AAU, recruiting hostesses, and Ed Martin.
Not many pimps give their ho’s 100K, Nick. That analogy sucked.
Is Dancing Baptist serious? I don’t follow college or pro football, but even I know that what he suggests sounds… pointless. Maybe you can close a campus to scouts, you can’t close the players’ parents’ houses to NFL scouts. Or anywhere else, really.
Also, it’s sad that “not a lot of chicanery” is the standard for cred among college coaches. And I note the “his campus” wording. Big-time college football is so inherently corrupt that people believe the campus as a whole belongs to the football coach, to do with as he will.
@Dancing Baptist
Many thanks for capitalising words you would like emphasis on. It REALLY helps me understand your pearls of wisdom and DEFINITELY doesn’t make you seem like a raging douche
>>Furthermore, Saban can make life miserable for the NFL by closing his campus to any and all not associated with the Tide. No NFL team reps, no NFL film crews, no NFL talking with his kids until the COMBINE. THAT would put a serious crimp in the gubbins of many a pro team.
He’s have a hell of a time with recruiting if he did that. What serious prospect will want to go to a college where he won’t get face time with NFL scouts?
@DancingBaptist: How many recruits do you think any college team would get if they banned NFL scouts?
The ideal situation is to punish the agents. The state of Florida has already made this type of contact illegal and goes after the agents who target these kids.
Are there any “legal eagles” that comment on KSK? Could the NFL punish the agents by banning their representation of players for a year? Keeping them from signing rookies for an upcoming class?
The NCAA needs to get off it’s high-horse and ask for some help with this. If they partnered with the league, they could hammer out a joint soloution that benefits everyone.
Not sure where you live or if you follow college football, but I’m going to take exception to this comment:
[i] If Saban wasn’t in Tuscaloosa, then some other jackass in a headset would be running the show. The players are the commodity– college coaches are essentially minor league scouts. There’s no need for the league to curry these egomaniacs’ favor by doing their jobs for them.[/i]
******************************
Your comment is true in the PRO game. In college, it’s ALL about the coaches. Right now the SEC Media day (three actually) is receiving running LIVE commentary and broadcast here in Atlanta. It’s even more ” hyped ” in Jacksonville, Athens and the entire state of by-God Alabama.
Furthermore, Saban can make life miserable for the NFL by closing his campus to any and all not associated with the Tide. No NFL team reps, no NFL film crews, no NFL talking with his kids until the COMBINE. THAT would put a serious crimp in the gubbins of many a pro team.
Saban has cred among his fellow coaches. Two championships and not a lot of chicanery. Alabama carries a lot of weight in the SEC and by default college football in general. If he goes through with his idea (and he’s egotistical enough to do so), Urban, RIcht, Brown (UT) and others will follow.
“These agents,” Saban asked yesterday, “how are they any different than a pimp?”
Well, for one thing, they don’t get rich off keeping a player ignorant and without choices. College coaches do that.
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“These agents,” Saban asked yesterday, “how are they any different than a pimp?”
That question makes me think we need to speak with some of Saban’s recruits and ask them to point to the spot on the doll where Uncle Nick touched them.
“These agents,” Saban asked yesterday, “how are they any different than a pimp?”
They don’t wear feathers in their hats.
Florio has long tried to argue that the NFL should defer to colleges lest the schools discontinue football and force the league to pay for the minor league system they get for free now. This is a breathtakingly stupid argument because it ignores that schools have their own reasons to maintain football that have absolutely nothing to do with the NFL.
Well if you can’t learn from a morals and values lecture delivered by Nick Saban … well, then you’re probably not a f#$%ing moron and a decent person.
// F#$%ing Contracts! How do they work?!?
nick saban has used this to get the mr. moral sport journalist shitfucks off of him and onto agents
Actual analysis without a dick joke? I thought I was lost for a minute.